Oh no...new guy with questions

[PoconoJohn]

Hello. By way of quick intro, I'm in the Pocono Mountain area of PA (not far from the Delaware Water Gap) and been flying since 1977. I bought all the Tony Bingellis books and educational info from EAA several years ago. I think I've read most of this forum as well as the biplane forum (also looking at some builder sites). I initially bought plans for the Pietenpol, but I like the Hatz Classic and I think it'll be more comfortable for my wife and I to fly around the country in. So I recently ordered and received plans for #149 (I'll save the Piet for my retirement project). Past 'house' projects include gutting and rebuilding a bathroom, designed and built a screened in porch, built a patio and also built a swing set from plans. I think I have the basic skills and tools to build this plane. Having said that, like the Piet, the plans already have me discouraged. I can't figure out the drawings of the ribs. I apparently have a weakness reading and comprehending plans (I actually took a mechanical drawing course in college too!). Here's where I'm stuck (pretty much everywhere):

Exactly what is page one (full aileron rib) showing me? It looks like a full length rib and another rib for the area ahead of the ailerons. I also don't know where full size ribs 2,3,4,5 and 6 are, as well as aileron ribs 8 and 9. Is there a numbering system?

Page two (rib template), like page one, also seems to show a full rib and aileron area rib. I do notice a small difference between the ribs on page one and two.

Is one page for top wing and another page lower wing? The drawing names don't help me.

What is the purpose of the false rib pattern?

On page one, in the top right box for material quantities, what is 430 in the capstrip box?

I read somewhere that these plans are 75% complete and builders should consider buying the CB1 plans to fill in the blanks. Thoughts?

I appreciate any help you can offer. I'm dying to order wood and start this (unless this is beyond my capabilities).

[dougm]

Hi John,
Welcome aboard! Here some info...

Exactly what is page one (full aileron rib) showing me? It looks like a full length rib and another rib for the area ahead of the ailerons. I also don't know where full size ribs 2,3,4,5 and 6 are, as well as aileron ribs 8 and 9. Is there a numbering system?

That is correct. It is showing you the details of the ribs. As for the numbers, start counting from the wing root (#1 is a solid plywood rib, so the first rib you would build is #2). The aileron rib should probably state "7, 8 & 9", however be sure to note the differences for #7 above the rib drawing regarding the enlarged openings to fit over the spar doublers.

Page two (rib template), like page one, also seems to show a full rib and aileron area rib. I do notice a small difference between the ribs on page one and two.

Page 2 has the templates you can use to build the ribs. Since the airfoil shape is the same for ribs 2-9, the top template can be used for all of those which is why you'll notice the details for the end of the aileron rib included in the drawing. You will need to adjust your rib jig accordingly when building full size or aileron ribs. The bottom template is for Rib #10 - the last rib at the wing tip has a different shape than the rest because this is where the wing begins to taper to the tip.

Is one page for top wing and another page lower wing? The drawing names don't help me.

Not sure what you mean here. there are separate pages for the top & bottom wings as the wing assemblies are different.

What is the purpose of the false rib pattern?

The "false rib" is additional support and strength for the plywood leading edge. If you look at pages 7 or 9 (the wings), look at the leading edge and you'll see that between each full rib is a piece that runs from the leading edge to the front spar - i.e. full rib, false rib, full rib, false rib, etc.

On page one, in the top right box for material quantities, what is 430 in the capstrip box?

That is the estimated number of feet of capstrip required to build the ribs. (I went with ~500 I think to allow for waste & mistakes).

I read somewhere that these plans are 75% complete and builders should consider buying the CB1 plans to fill in the blanks. Thoughts?

My opinion is that this is old info. I'm certainly not done with mine yet, but haven't seen anything that would make me say I need the CB-1 plans to fill in the blanks.

Spend a good amount of time studying the wing drawings and the related pages that have the various components. The more you study and deconstruct it in your head the more things will become clearer.

Hope this helps...

[PoconoJohn]

Thank you Doug. To make sure I understand, page two top rib is the template for ribs 2,3,4,5 and 6 (and also aileron ribs 7,8,9 with their differences). Under that is the rib 10 template.

For building the single jig, I'll use the template at the top of page two, making adjustments for aileron ribs.

Like the Piet, I guess every time I look at this. I'll see something new. Thanks again!

[dougm]

You got it. You'll need two jigs: 1 for ribs 2-9, and one for rib 10 as the shape is different. Here's a link to some of my rib pics, maybe these will help:
http://www.damowry.com/hatz/thumbnails. ... m=3&page=1

[PoconoJohn]

Thanks!

[Nick]

John, welcome!

First, don't get discouraged. I went through exactly what you are going through when I first got my plans. They are daunting to say the least! The trick is to spend several hours looking through the plans and asking questions here until you have a sense of what is going on. One of the reasons I picked the Hatz is this support forum. Folks here are very, very helpful!

Second, once you have a sense of what you have to do, start building individual components and stop looking through the whole set of plans so often. I found that every time I looked through all those pages, I got discouraged. So I picked one task and simply completed it to the best of my ability then moved on to the next task. AFter a while you have a bunch of components that, when assembled, look like something. Those are good days in the shop!

Good Luck! It's a great ride.

Nick

[PoconoJohn]

Thanks Nick; nice to have the help of other builders here.

[tlandrum]

Another good newbie post... (more than anything I am commenting so that I can find this post again).